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Talk:Little Wonders Educational Facility
Burial at Sea - strange place for the facility... First Fontaine wanted to hide what went on in those places and what the orphaned children were used for (ADAM producing slaves) - look at the places the orphanages were in the original games. Second, prime business real estate (Market Street) location - a bit too expensive to get placed there. Why would Fontaine (or especially Ryan) pay a premium price for such a place when they didnt have to. Simply placed there because you do the 'Rapture as it Was' walkthrough from Bookers P.I. office (which is also odd being located in a prime/expensive location - how hard would it have been to follow the cliche about PIs??). :DeWitt Investigations being located on Market Street is odd considering Booker seemed to be struggling just to get by, but none of the rest seems strange. :Little Sister's Orphanage was where Fontaine collected children for the Gatherer program. Little Wonders Educational Facility was where girls were indoctrinated, received the mental conditioning, and eventually implanted with sea slugs. These two facilities in no way needed to be located adjacent to eachother (it's not hard to transport a child from one place to another via a Bathysphere). :Remember that Little Wonders was disguised as an education center, probably a finishing school where parents could send there children for a proper "Rapture" education in addition to there normal schooling (listen to the fake Brigid Tenenbaum song playing at the facility). We can assume that parents were given a tour of a dummy facility up front before sending their girls there (the space were the scientific experiments were conducted would be hidden behind the scenes). The girls seen out front during BAS1 are probably just a front (AKA girls receiving a real education to convince other parents that this place was legit). :What makes you think Market Street was too expensive real estate. High Street, perhaps, but Market Street seems to be upper-middle class to upper class shopping. What qualtiy of parents would send their children off to a place like this? Probably upper and upper middle class citizens worried about "keeping up with the Joneses" and seeming nurturing/supportive. :Unownshipper (talk) 23:20, June 8, 2014 (UTC) :I also find that odd and why would they teach the girls in the middle of this hig class street (as seen in market street) I hink that there is planty of room inside? :But the thing that I find even more odd is that the Ryan the Lion Preparatory Academy is located in a department store and not just any; one that is owned by Fontaine... + its also next to an erotic shop! :I feel like they didn't think about the setting at all. :Shacob (talk) 23:32, June 8, 2014 (UTC) :In the previous storyline the 'poor' were ones who couldnt support their children and were turning them over to 'a better life', or the kids were outright Orphans with no parents. Non-poor people (if it was supposed to be a 'school') want to see their children later (and mostly send kids to a day school). They would be outraged seeing their zombified children, and head for Fontaine/Ryan with shotguns and clubs. :It made sense for all the children used to be 'poor'. Well off people have little reason to dispose of their children the same way. Dummy/sham school classes wont help cover up what is being done to the children unless the parents dont see them ever again. Hence Fontaines Little Sisters Orphanage in the slumy areas near the people desperate enough to turn their children over like that. :Perhaps if the slug-infested children still largely acted normal, then 'stopping by' to see 'they are alright' in the Orphanages/Charity home might be passible, but we already saw their strangeness even in the street in BaS1. When a 'schoolchild parent' wants to see what they are paying for, they will go see alot and eventually want to take them home or later place them in another age correct school. :The truth would be made obvious and exposed, with serious repercussions. :Too expensive there for what it is - prime frontage in good commercial real estate. Schools take up space (assume there is a dormitory and all the other facilities attached...). Rents have to be paid and schools generally dont have large profits (if the parents actually see they get what they pay for). History of the Little Wonders Facilities There seems to disagreement about the history of these places. So lets take a look. The facility at Point Promethus was owned by Fontaine originally. We find Suchong's Changing Employers Audio Diary there in a room full of old signage. Proof that he owned it. However Fontaine did NOT use conditioning on his Little Sisters. He didn't need to. Little Sisters where kept secret under him, so no reason for conditioning. The facility at PP is clearly intended for conditioning though as we see equipment for it and even some Little Sisters dresses. Fontaine didn't use those. Fontaine could have made Little Sisters here or they could have been warehoused here as well. With the Plasmid place nearby someone might have thought keeping the ADAM supply near production was a good idea. But we have no proof either way that any Little Sisters where created at PP before Ryan opened the Little Wonders facility there. So it's best to err on the side of caution about it. Now the Little Sister's Orphonages are different than the Little Wonder's Education Facility. The LSO are ment to draw little girls in to be convereted into Little Sisters. These girls are orphans with no parents or parants who had given up their kids because they could no longer support them. These would be centered in the poorer parts of Rapture such as the one in Hestia. The LWEF pretened to be education facilites that people would want to send their kids to (at first at least) and would have been placed in much more upscale locations such as the one on Market Street. I expect few LSO became LWEF. When Ryan took over, he made the Little Sisters became public. And conditioning started and so did Big Daddy creation. This is when the Little Wonders Education Facilites would have been opened. And they would have needed a lot more room than Fontaine ever did as well. Fontaine took children that few people would miss. Ryan took everyones little girls as far as we can tell. As such he would have needed to expand. sm Solarmech (talk) 15:52, December 3, 2014 (UTC) :I'm not sure Fontaine owned all of Point Prometheus, but at least two out of the three labs were his property: Optimized Eugenics for being the Genetic Research Department of his company (the publicly known lab, the other at FFuturistics was hidden to the public eye) and Fail-Safe Armored Escorts, though that one could have still be owned by Ryan before the nationalization and re-purposed into Protector manufacturing. :Anyway I agree that the Little Wonders facilities were probably opened only when Ryan decided to condition the girls into harvesting corpses. Both of the known facilities are, like you said, located in upscale districts. Still the facility in Point Prometheus could have still existed under a different name before Ryan took it over (if Fontaine owned it), with the purpose of making researches on the girls. Pauolo (talk) 21:15, December 4, 2014 (UTC) ::I concur with most of this discussion, but we should make one thing clear. "''But we have no proof either way that any Little Sisters where created at PP before Ryan opened the Little Wonders facility there." Let us not make the mistake of asserting that the children impalanted with Sea Slugs are not "Little Sisters" unless they're wearing the frilly dresses provided by Ryan. As soon as they were in there, they were Little Sisters. ::I agree with Pauolo that the LWEF certainly existed before the nationalization, though it's possible that it operated under another name. So the facility now known as Little Wonders was where the girls were taken and implanted with the slug. The girls probably were housed in the holding cells (they couldn't be taken back to the orphanages all zombified). Something I noticed when adding the picture is that the cells are labeled 1-5 and the last one is numbered 7. I thought it was a mistake, but it appears that cells 6 & 8 were cleared out for the large mental conditioning room. So Ryan lost two cells, but gained the mental conditioning space, small loss. He added the Skinner Box-like machine and the dresses, but what about the childlike decor? ::Let's ask ourselves, could it be that the place was ''still named "Little Wonders Educational Facility" and adorned with the nutcrackers and other stuff before Ryan's takeover? Think about it. What better explanation as to why you're bringing young children into a scientific research facility like Point Prometheus than to claim it's an education center? That's enough of an explanation to stop janitors, engineers, other scientists, etc. from asking uncomfortable questions. The friendly exterior would even keep the girls calm until it was too late and they're inside. Ryan could have later rebranded it as a finishing school or whatever. ::Why do we assume it had a different name? ::I think it's correct to assert the differences between the Orphanages and Little Wonders. We've NEVER seen any evidence of the necessary surgical facilities in a Little Sister's Orphanage, and with good reason. The orphanages were ONLY a gathering location, not an operation place. We have nothing to suggest that the physical buildings housing the orphanages were repurposed for other business ventures as compared with Optimized Eugenics which has the old doors and posters in the trash in from of the facility. ::Unownshipper (talk) 08:59, December 5, 2014 (UTC) :::I think while Fontaine owned the space, it wasnt called Little Wonders until Ryan took over, closed down LSO, and create LWEF. Reason being, in Suchongs audio diary, Protecting Little Ones, he talks about the need to mentally condition the LS to not only bond them to a protector but to mentally condition them to recycle ADAM from corpses AFTER ''the Civil War had begun. Fontaine made no references to recycling ADAM or LWEF so it could be possible that Fontaine used the space as test labs or implantation labs under a different name? Tricksteroffools (talk) 19:10, December 31, 2014 (UTC) :::I think it is highly likely. Fontaine did rent at least part of the space there. So it's likely he had rented the space the Little Wonders occupies. Solarmech (talk) 19:43, December 31, 2014 (UTC) ::::I don't question that Fontaine owned the space (either fully or just holding a rental contract), but I do question what war Suchong is referring to in Protecting Little Ones. Is it the Rapture Civil War? That seems to be the most obvious, but Suchong didn't live long enough (2 WEEKS!!), besides Subject Delta and Eleanor Lamb were gathering on New Year's Eve, so the Protector Program must've been going on earlier. ::::I think he's referring to the "war" that the bloody shootout at Fontaine Fisheries created (the growing unrest, the large body count, etc.). ::::Might it be that Fontaine already started the ADAM recycling program? We see advertisements at Fontaine Clinics encouraging blood donation, so CLEARLY he knew that ADAM could be taken from the blood. The man was all about making money, so what if he started bringing bodies to the LWEF, then he could get ANOTHER source of ADAM for free. ::::Ryan could've later orchestrated them hitting the streets, but the facility could still have been used for the girls to create ADAM and to extract it. That might explain why there's an AUTOPSY room. ::::Unownshipper (talk) 08:43, January 2, 2015 (UTC) ::::IIRC the "Ghost" Little Sister in that room begs not to be put on the table. So it would seem that they were used fo the Little Sisters. Paying for people to donate blood has been done for a long time and is a common way for the poor to earn money. Even with First Aid Kits blood would still be needed even without ADAM in it. ::::Before the start of the Civil War not many people were dying in Rapture. Recovering ADAM from dead bodies probably wouldn't have been all that good because there were not a whole lot of them being produced. I figure the mortality rate would probably be about what the US is now which is 7-8 people per year out of 1,000. (If Rapture had a population of 10,000 there would be about 80 per year or only about 6 or 7 a month)/ ::::Suchong DID know a way to recycle ADAM from corpes before he invented the Big Daddies though. I'm guess that the Big Daddy project was started after Ryan "killed" Fontaine. ( Protecting Little Ones ) Though I have to wonder how much he actually invented. It would seem that a lot of the Big Daddy tech (and Worker "Big Daddies") was around before it was started. sm Solarmech (talk) 13:45, January 2, 2015 (UTC) Killing Little Sisters at the LWE? Thought be a good idea to talk about it. While it may seem wastefull to kill Little Sisters, what happens when they are no longer able to produce ADAM? This can happen due to the Little Sister getting to old, possibly something going wrong that even the slug can't fix or a failed implantation. They may also decide that they need a LOT of ADAM in a short period of time and sacrifice long term supply for a short term boost. And the room DOES say "Autopsy". sm Solarmech (talk) 15:45, December 20, 2014 (UTC) :If it simply said "Operation" of "Surgery" it'd be one thing, but an autopsy specifically deals with the dead. The girls are "practically indestructible" (much like how the ''Titanic was described as practically unsinkable), so there still is the potential that something could kill them. I'll bet that if there were an accident that the specialists would bring the Little Sister back here so that the slug could be removed from the host and implanted into a new one. It'd be more secure than taking them to the Medical Pavilion where the awful process could be brought to the public's attention. :Plus the likelihood of a girl growing too old to be an effective host is more than a possibility, so I don't think the line necessarily needs to be removed. :Unownshipper (talk) 06:13, December 21, 2014 (UTC)